Are the Dutch Rude or Just Direct?
Lady Gaga, (remember her?) that rather talentless alleged singer, whose specialty appears to be making sub-soft porn pop videos set to music. Even though Madonna did all this in the eighties and nineties, Lady Gaga does her best to shock and ends up causing loud yawns for going over well-trodden ground. Which brings me to the subject of today’s post, a subject that has been discussed many, many times before, are the Dutch rude or just direct?
A common complaint from Expats upon arriving in the Netherlands is how rude they find the Dutch. Even some Dutch people returning to the Netherlands after being away for a few years share the same opinion. In a survey published in De Telegraaf in 2006, the Dutch voted themselves as the third rudest nation in the world behind the Russians and the French. The common response from some is that Dutch are not rude, they are just direct. Which is true? The Shallow Man will bravely go, where one, two or twenty men have gone before and will attempt to confirm if the Dutch are rude or direct.
Yes, unfortunately, I will have to generalize somewhat, and no doubt my comments will upset some. If as a result I’m captured by a group of angry Dutch people and made to watch the coronation of King Willem-Alexander, the not so bright, over and over again, I’ll stare fearlessly at my enemies and say, “Flikker lekker op jullie domme monarchists!” The things I do for my readers!
The things I do for my readers!
Rude, Oxford Dictionary Definition
Offensively impolite or bad-mannered:
Direct, Oxford Dictionary Definition
(Of a person or their behavior) going straight to the point; frank: he is very direct and honest
Are the Dutch Rude or Direct? You Decide
Depending on who you ask the Dutch are either often rude or direct. Far be it from the Shallow Man to take sides in this debate. Like a Judge that finds a member of his family about to be put on trial in his own court, the Shallow Man, due to personal reasons (close relations with the Dutch) will recuse himself from this debate and allow his readers to draw their own conclusions. However, I’ll provide some real-life examples of actual behaviors.
Helpful advice on dieting
An English girl, who I’ll call Suzy, was having some issues with her weight. The fact that she kept bringing steak and kidney pies and other English delicacies to Amsterdam and consuming them in large quantities didn’t really help. While at lunch with some Dutch colleagues she happened to mention that she was on a diet to which one of the ladies present responded, “Not another diet? You keep doing these but you’re still very fat, perhaps you should eat less and do some exercise.”
Political correctness
A former Dutch manager of mine not long after I’d moved to Amsterdam once said to me, “From the telephone interview we had, I had no idea you were black. I don’t have a problem with blacks, it’s Moroccans I can’t stand“.
We have no word for that in our language
From a reader.
“I’ve lost count the number of times that people have bumped into me in the street and just walk on as if nothing happened. Words such as excuse me or sorry appear to be more difficult to get out of the Dutch than getting them to leave a decent sized tip in a restaurant. Is it a cultural misunderstanding? In the UK and in many other countries, it’s considered normal to apologize if you walk into someone, or kneecap them with your bag of shopping. Am I being too sensitive in expecting some acknowledgment when someone does something like this?”
Every man and woman for themselves
“Shallow Man, I am an American and when visiting Amsterdam recently, my sister got on a tram holding a young child. Not a single person got up and offered her a seat. I could not believe that the men in Amsterdam were so rude.”
The Shallow Man will add to this that whenever I give up my seat on the tram to an old person, they often look as if they are about to have a cardiac arrest, that’s how unusual it is for people to behave this way, in Amsterdam at least.
From the NRC Handelsblad website forum
I believe that the way that Dutch react on Poles is an excellent example how rude can they be.
These are not just ordinary people that use rude language at the address of Polish. De Volkskrant called Polish in one of the articles “smerig volk” which I would translate to “shitty nation”.
Even the columnist of the NRC Next (the sister newspaper of NRC Handelsblad) Jan Blokker called Polish not so long ago on a national television “tuig” = “scumbags”.
Has he been direct? I don’t think so. To me, he has been just rude as one can be.
I could come with thousands of such examples.
What do you think?
So there you have it, above are a few of the common occurrences that lead some to conclude that the Dutch are rude, or are these common misunderstanding about behaviour and are they actually just direct and telling it like it is?
My own views on this are that I’ve encountered a lot of rude behaviour here, and continue to do so on an almost daily basis. That aside, I also know plenty of very well mannered and polite Dutch people as well. So what do you think? Are the Dutch rude, direct, or just jolly nice chaps?
No serial dieters were hurt during the writing of this post.
Rude nation AFTER French? I got here after living yeas in France and whenever I get back to Paris (yes, Paris, no mistake here) , I feel like getting back to a heaven of politeness. I can’t even number all the nasty experiences I had in Netherlands living in Amsterdam for less than a year. A tram almost running me over with a push-chair and my baby in it, the bikes never letting me cross first with the push-chair, people never thanking me for opening and holding the door for them, people never excusing themselves for pushing me, people never letting you pass first when you have a buggy and a little baby. And the thing I see only here – little store vendors practically screaming at me because my toddler touches something on the shelves of their store, just touching without causing any damage. Now whenever I need to send a package, I search a little store run by visibly not Dutch person to have the vendor being nice to my daughter. People are definitely the rudest here. I try to fight it though by being as polite as possible with them, even thanking the walkers that let me pass first when I am on my bike. There are exceptions though. Once at the tram stop there was an aged Dutch man who proposed me to carry the push chair into the tram and help me out with my bag while I was holding my daughter who capriciously did not want to sit in her push chair. I thought to myself back than that it must have been an angel…so rare this sort of behaviour in this city…
The dutch are just rude whe it fits their mentallity . If they will want to get something they will very polite and never complain see restaurant But when they consider you get in their way they go nuke on you like an autistic Hulk
Of all 8-9 countries I have been to (and I lived in Netherlands for 5 years, now I am living in USA), I have found Americans and Australians to be rude. Dutch are plain direct (may be rude for some). Rudeness is felt by another person, so you can not generalize these things, as it is a feeling. Let me give you an example (written one): In Netherlands, when ever some one (even my boss, I work in Academia) asked me to work on something they wrote “Can you please do ***”, now in USA it will be “can you do ***” which to me is rude! In USA people ask how are you, and before I respond they turn their back to me… Now for me the last two are rude….
You cannot generalize the incidents in Netherlands to Dutch. Its a cosmopolitan place, so get to interact with all (not just Dutch)….
Hmm… Bit late to this discussion, but whatever. I’m Dutch, and I think most dutch people would find several of your examples rude.
The truth is, sometimes Dutch people are rude. Other times they are direct. We’re not talking about the same thing here. We don’t like to walk on eggshells around people. When we have a point to make, we want to make it clearly, without cushioning the blow and muddying the message.
We also have a sense of humor that is likely considered rude to foreigners. We expect people to have a thick skin, and be able to laugh at themselves. Because a lot of our humor is derived from friendly mockery. But if you don’t realize there’s no ill intent behind it, you can see this as rude.
We don’t even realize we might seriously offend somebody, and if we did, we’d expect that person to speak up about it. We don’t realize we’re being rude when we’re being direct or when we’re making a joke at someone’s expense. Because this is not as rude in our culture. Even cursing (“Fuck you”) and calling each other bad names isn’t considered all that rude, and can actually be used sorta endearingly.
I read a comment from a woman on another article, and she mentioned her Dutch brother in law saw a picture of her father and said he looked like a Mexican criminal. Now, I guarantee that wasn’t meant as an insult. It might even have been a compliment. But she took offense to this, which I could understand, looking from her perspective.
See, it’s a cultural thing. Like we would consider burping or farting at the table to be rude, but in other cultures that’s a compliment. It’s the same thing here. We just have a different perspective on what is rude and what is not.
I’m not saying we’re all good people. We have our fair share of assholes. We have our fair share of racists. And even our good people probably have bad moments now and then. But I think a lot of what foreigners see as rude is simply miscommunication between different cultures.
Then again, I suppose you could argue that unintended rudeness is still rudeness and I basically just explained that rudeness is our way of life, thus proving the point. But… Most of us mean well 🙂
i ve been living in the Netherlands for more than 3 years and i met imbeciles and i met really nice ,cool and cute people ,so im keeping my friendship with them even im living in Latin America nowadays, about rudeness and directness yeahh!!! depends each person depends the situation hahahaha!!! sometimes is funny.
I’m Dutch and I agree with you!
I also love how the other Dutch people on here just say you are false and stupid and consider the matter closed, like that should be the end of it and the opinion that is different should not matter. Freedom of speech seems to only apply when it’s convenient.
Ugh I can’t stand it
,,Amsterdam” keeps pushing me away but I keep coming back. It’s a love/hate relationship.
I just read this article. Hahahaha.
Ok, let’s move on. This article is só stupid, naive and dumb I honestly don’t know where to start. You want to see if Dutch are rude, and to point this out, you only gonna use some very rude things people ever said. So? Ever been abroad? Never met rude people there, or hear them saying rude things?
The other points you make are about rasicm. Yes. You have those people here (off course).
But the most hilarious part is about the Volkskrant supposedly callling Polish people scumbags, hahaha, your a funny guy, but it’s kinda rude to tell lies. Did someone ever learned you about that. The NRC example is even better. Ever heard of context, sarcasm? But then again, using things a columnist said…oh men. Did you ever read columns in newspapers abroad?
I get the point you want to make. But your arguments are false and simply stupid. Just to judge about “The Dutch” with these naive examples is, indeed, very rude, Sir.
I have visited 8 countries so far and spent a minimum of 10 days in each. I am currently in Amsterdam. I’ve only been here two days and I already want to leave because people are SO rude! It’s not being direct, it’s childish. Sure there are loads of wonderful people here, but overall the Dutch are much ruder than everywhere else I’ve been.
I exchanged emails with a Dutch this week for work purpose, and could not resist to search on line if I was the only one to feel the ‘rudeness’. Even if she uses ‘could you and would you’ her writing was sweating a bit too much directness than ordinary exchanges, borderline leading to rude. She kind of finds ways to give us orders while she is suppose to be assisting us…Wow, my first in 12 years in a professional environment.
They are Rude that,s why they change their behaviour when abroad, they wouldnt get away with the stunts they pull in their own country…They,ve done pretty well as a small country concerning material aspects and business but as a people, mentality and manners havent evolved…Enlightened generation where art thou ( its the soul the personality of the people that has to evolve not only technology ) Sorry fellow cave dwellers who do not accept me but tolerate me
Have you lived there? If so where did you live? What kind of work did you do and how much of a social life have you had with the Dutch to have this opinion? And last, where are you originally from because based on your response, I’d say USA.
Have I lived there? By there I assume you mean the Netherlands. I live in Amsterdam and have done for over ten years.
Sorry Nicole,,, I,ll get back too You,,, Few difficulties at this Moment,,, Regards Kenny
I,ve been i the netherlands for 24 years,,, I lived for 1 year in Amsterdam that was Ok,Nice People,, Good People!!! then i moved to Rotterdam,,, Worst move in my Life….On Breaktime,,, People coming in Squeezing farts out of their arse and Literally saying ” Enjoy Your Meal , with A Grin on their Face,,, Disgusting”!!! I Also worked in Lumburg,,, That,s in the South of the Netherlands Ha ha,,, When i Came there I THOUGHT I WAS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY,,, people asking me questions wanting to mix with me ” without that arrogant attitude, that Was BRILLIANT…Im 51 years old,,, so i was already formed into a young man before i came here…it,s s Not that easy as up and Go,,, and Go Home… I Have A Daughter Who just turned 19 years old in june this year and ” I Wanna Know Everything Is Ok With that Girl “!!! I work with the Dutch everyday so i Know how they are,,, I,ve had ups and downs,,,i,ve done everything from cleaning to working on Dredger Ships as a Cook,,,So opportunities Are there but You Will Never Be Dutch ” Only On Paper “,,, !!! The Dutch always say they are A TOLERANT PEOPLE,,,, CHECK in YOUR DICTIONARY what TOLERANT ACTUALLY MEANS??? I know Foreign people who have lived here for 20 years but have never been in A Dutch Household!!! IF You Are A Woman and you Come to the netherlands,,,IT Will BE EASIER THAN BEING A MAN but you will never feel the Warmth and Hospitality That Most Of All Countries Or Cultures Have… The Dutch WANT to Portray themselves as being modern and Progressive and with Some Technical Things ,,,,They Are Doing Really Good!!! Evolution of THE HEART ( nothing has Changed,,, just Like the Farmers ( Boeren ) from 200 Years Ago )!!!!!! Im Scottish,,, I was there A Few Weeks Ago,,,, and When Everybody LEAVES THE BUS,,, They Say,,, THANK YOU,,, CHEERS MATE,,,TA MUCH,,, SEE YOU,,,, ” Everybody”!!! THERE IS A DUTCH PROVERB,,, iedereen voor zich en GOD voor ons allemaall,,,, THAT LITERALILY tells You About the Dutch Mentality!!!! Everyone for himself and GOD for everyone!!! It,s a joke,,, You cant just knock on someones door,,, They will Have their Agenda Out checking the Schedule,,,,,!!!! Hope I GAVE you the INFO YOU NEEDED,,,, If you are planning to come to the netherlands,,, I WISH YOU WELL but YOU WONT HAVE THAT ” Famy Feeling “,,,, Take Care Nicole,,,,REGARDS Kenny
I think it’s rude to see an entire population as one, and label it as rude.
That is a fair and deeply philosophical point of view.
I lived 4 years in Nijmegen (Gelderland) and I have to say that I found people very kind. I have never found them rude probably because I come from Tuscany, and people there don’t realise how incredibly rude they are – when I was coming back home from the Netherlands I clearly felt them rude. But even in Gelderland they were pretty direct.
Honestly, I’m currently trying to leave UK (where I currently live) and move back to the Netherlands, and Dutch directness is one of this reason: English are the most indirect people you can find in Europe and they hardly say what they think, and this makes me feeling not free to express my opinion in this country. I prefer an unpleasant truth to a nice lie.
https://www.privacyfirst.nl/aandachtsvelden/wetgeving/item/547-vn-lidstaten-spreken-nederland-aan-op-ethnic-profiling.html
Google translate can be used to translate into English or another language
http://www.smh.com.au/world/recession-fuels-fear-of-foreigners-and-lurch-to-right-20100927-15u2i.html
Sorry, but I really cannot believe that the Volkskrant would use the words “smerig volk”, I tried to check on google, but the only result that came up was Telegraaf (which seems more reasonable to me)
Hilarious article to read. I am Dutch myself, and while I agree with most of the things you write, I have to add that some of the things you write correspond more with the typical inhabitant of Amsterdam, than with most other Dutch people. There is a significant difference between people from Amsterdam, and people from anyplace else in the Netherlands. Sadly, for many people visiting the Netherlands, Amsterdam is as far as they go, while Amsterdam in many instances is a poor example of what the Dutch and Dutchistan itself can be like. To prove a point, I hereby apologize for the rudeness of some of my fellow countrymen. Sorry in advance, for if I ever bump into you!
Jesse LOL!! No need to apologise hoor! 🙂 Thanks
When I was on holiday in Tenerife once, I think it was about in 2000. I ran into a girl at a club there who said she was from the Netherlands and the way she treated me was unbelievable. She pushed my cap down over my face really hard, told me to keep it like that, and told me that I was like the ugliest thing she had ever seen. Then she pushed me away from her saying “why you talking to me!?”, “go away! why you talking to me!?” I know I’m not the best looking guy but why is there ever an excuse to treat someone like that? She wasn’t even in an upset mood! Except from how she was with me, she was laughing, having a good time, and dancing and flirting with the other guys there! I have never been treated like that before! Even if I am that hideous of a troll, I’m still a human being!
Certainly a lack of pleases and thank yous, and nobody says sorry if they bump into you. Also when you’re kept waiting half an hour for an appointment because they’re running late they don’t say sorry. It’s rudeness not bluntness.
In a professional setting the Dutch definitely would not let one of their own wait for 30 minutes and not apologising. Even amongst themselves this is considered a big No-No. They tend to display this rotten behaviour in particular if they know or have a hunch the other person is not a Dutch.
So everything you experience as rude judged from your own cultural perspective is seen by a total stranger in another country as well.
Examples:
– the provocations against the Muslim religion by the Dutch politician Geert Wilders was seen as out-of-line by the Saudi Arabic government as highly offensive resulting in serious consequences for Dutch projects in their country. The Dutch secretary of State Timmermans flew there rather swiftly to perform best-possible damage control.
– the now worldwide notorious Dutch entertainment artist Gordon, who threw some serious racial remarks, classified by themselves as ‘ harmless ‘ and ‘ intended as a joke ‘ at a Chinese performer at a playback show, even got the attention of high Chinese government officials asking the Dutch for an explanation.
Again here: futile attempts at damage control but no apologies
It’s as if the Dutch are telling the world to ‘ get lost ‘ and ‘ live with Dutch obnoxiousness ‘
I am Dutch and even I find a lot of Dutch people direct/rude. So there you go, not just something foreigners notice or experience.
Having said this, your two examples say nothing about the Dutch. These are remarks made by two different people. You make it look like everyone agreed, but you do not mention the backlash these people got over here.
A rather one-sided story.
Fair comments Erik
I definitely find them rude but I’m measuring them by British standards. I struggle on a daily basis (also with my hubby, he’s Dutch) with the lack of spacial awareness, gratitude, privacy and unselfishness. I find this on the roads too. It’s a rarity if I am thanked for pulling over for someone to get past or waiting for them to pull out. I know it’s not malicious but I also know it takes no effort to thank someone with a smile. My personal friends generally are more sensitive but most strangers I find disappointing.
i think you are unstating the Dutch
obnoxious and blatantly offensive would be more appropriate
I have been living here in Holand for 35 years and the credit crunch hasn’t helped them getting more agreeable seriously